How I found the blog site I linked to in my previews entry, it was an article about the two similarities between psychopathy and Asperger’s and I will quote pieces from it how it reflected me and why I thought there was some truth to it.
“He knew he had AS but he didn’t tell me he was affected. Even if they know (and many are undiagnosed) they won’t tell you because they don’t think it’s significant. That’s because they’re unable to understand their own disorder.”
I don’t tell people because of the stigma about it and I am very mild so I don’t want any assumptions being made or being defined by the label. Also because I don’t feel comfortable telling and it’s very hard to be out with it and I do think when it comes to relationships you should tell because I know it will come out and your partner will notice but they won’t know what is going on so assumptions will be made anyway and misunderstandings will still occur. But no matter how mild you are, someone may still notice something is off about you. My husband told me he could tell something was different about me. It was just a feeling he had. I don’t know what my mother is talking about when she tells me no one will ever guess but is she just telling me this to make me feel better or does she truly believe it? Parents tend to be more bias about their children.
So do I fully agree with this person here what she wrote here, not exactly but there was still some truth to it like not telling others we have it and thinking it’s not that obvious from my own personal experience .
She even provided sources like from Dr. Simon Baron-Cohen like with troubles imagining how others see you. Yes I have been shocked how others have perceived me and this is also true for normies too because none of us always realize how we are coming off to others.
“Theory of Mind is the ability to attribute to mental states-emotions beliefs, intents desires, pretending, knowledge, etc.-to oneself to others and to understand that others have beliefs, desires, and intentions that are different from one’s own.”
When I was a kid I thought anyone was crazy if they didn’t like birthday cake or presents or Polly Pockets or toys or Disney movies or books because I didn’t understand kids had their own interests and likes and desires. So when anyone would claim they didn’t like something I liked, I didn’t believe them because I had troubles understanding. Even normal children have this problem too until around four years of age because they began to understand not everyone thinks like them. I am sure I have mistaken playful teasing as them being mean so I would end up acting like a bully. But isn’t it being mean if the other person isn’t enjoying it? The whole point of a playful tease is something for both parties to enjoy and sometimes we all do something we think will be funny but it backfires so the best thing to do is apologize and not do that again to that person. But yet when you have a disability, you don’t have this right and instead you are wrong for how you feel. Instead you’re wrong, they’re right and when you do a playful tease, you are the bad guy and they are the victim. What’s wrong with this picture?
I was aware of kids getting mad at me or upset but I didn’t understand why. I could never seem to stop upsetting other kids and annoying others.
As an adult I am realizing how everyone has a different personal experience than me so they may not know how to do simple things I can like cutting the grass, doing laundry, doing cleaning around the house because they were never taught or they grew up where they didn’t have a yard and some were never taught how to wash clothes. I even realized as an adult how not all teens are smart as me regarding laws because I was obsessed with laws and lot of teens are not so of course they wouldn’t know how much trouble they can get the adult in if they have sex with them posing as an adult and using fake ID. But then again I even see normies lacking TOM about personal experience and knowledge so they say anyone is “stupid” for not knowing who Paul McCartney is or not ever knowing Titanic was a real ship that actually sunk or not knowing who Miley Cyrus is. Look who is lacking TOM now? Sometimes I feel I have a better TOM than normies.
“They aren’t playing games and manipulating you like a psychopath does – they just don’t get it.”
She acknowledge the difference. They are not doing it on purpose like a psychopath would.
“We can hurt people unintentionally because we don’t understand how our actions affect them, and we can even not feel remorse of we fail to understand the consequence of our actions as they affect others” … an aspie”
Remember when I wrote about the time I stole a pack of gum from the store when I was about six. My mom had to take me back to the store and have me pay for it. I did not feel any remorse. Then I asked if it was because I didn’t care or if because I didn’t understand how my actions might affect others and how it would make them feel. I was then pissed because I paid for that gum and my mom threw it away. Hearing this story I still didn’t seem to get why she took it from me but I did learn to not ever take anything from the store again because my mom will just take it. I still learned from the consequence. You see most kids would feel bad about breaking a rule when caught. I did not feel bad at all. I never have felt bad. That makes me feel like a psychopath. Also i do not even understand why people would feel remorse for something they do wrong because why do it in the first place if you know it’s wrong or know you shouldn’t do it? If something isn’t your fault, why even feel remorse?
Another example is the story my mom told me about giving kids punishments and how it depends on the child. She told me a story about when my youngest brother did something and my mom told him how he had lost her trust. He had to earn it back and he asked her two weeks later what he can do to earn it back and my mom told him he would have to figure that one out himself. But if she had done that with me, it wouldn’t have worked because I wouldn’t have understood how she felt and I would have turned it around on her and think it’s her problem and she would have to figure it out herself. That made me feel like a psychopath. She told me I wouldn’t have cared because I wouldn’t have understood her feelings.
My mother in law feels guilty to this day for my husband’s brain damage. I do not understand why she would feel that way because what happened to her and him was not her fault. She was sick so she was coughing and she coughed so hard the umbilical cord ripped from her uterus that she had to have an emergency delivery because she was hemmerging (sp). How is this her fault? My husband told me it’s called empathy and told me it’s something I don’t have. He has acknowledge I have some of it but not a lot. But my mom will say I have empathy but then she contradicted it with this story she told me about losing her trust and how it wouldn’t have worked on me. Like I say parents tend to be more bias about their children.
“If they insult you, they have no idea that what they were going to say is insulting, or that it will hurt your feelings.”
How many times has my husband told me I say lot of things he would be insulted by or offended by if they were said by someone else?
I have even been told by a former Wrongplanet Moderator I insulted members and to this day I still wonder how in the hell I insulted people there or was that one of his lies he told me?
Or the time one of my old online friends told me on a forum I hurt her feelings sometimes. I was then too afraid to talk to her.
There was a time on Wrongplanet a few months back about someone posting about their narcissistic mother and how she took anything she said the wrong way so I responded about how the time I told my ex ‘That is less calories for you to have” when he accidentally spilled some macaroni in the sink. He took offense saying I called him fat, another member responded that was very logical of him to come to that conclusion. Then that same member chimed in saying she was thinking the exact same thing and gave an example about her abusive ex husband telling her ‘hey you want to go out for a run with me so you can burn off all those bag of chips you just had.”
There I felt crazy for a moment thinking I was exaggerating and what if I was the abuser and he was the victim. But talking to my mother and my online friend made me realize I wasn’t exaggerating or making any of this up.
“They will not ask how your day was, and if you tell them they won’t care.”
We tend to forget because it doesn’t come natural and it won’t occur to us to ask. To a normie, if we cared we would remember to ask. Even if we do ask them because we do actually remember, we still might not care but we only asked because we are supposed to. But then again most people will ask how are you or what’s up and not really care because they don’t want a real answer. It’s exhausting to listen to something we don’t care about and then if they need any emotional support if they had a bad day, we’re stuck because what do we say, how do we comfort them and we tend to suck at emotional support. We can only give out solutions and that is our support. But even normies who give out solutions to problems as their way of showing support because they want to help them, they are also seen as cold and uncaring and lacking empathy. I learned that at Babycenter.
“If it was a bad one and you need some support, you can’t get any because they can’t understand that you need any”
I had an online aspie friend who was also very mild like me. She was always ranting and she lived where there was always drama it’s like she lives in a movie I have even wondered if any of it is any true. But she always needed support and I didn’t know how to give it. I listened, I didn’t give her any solutions, I listened but that wasn’t good enough. I couldn’t stop saying the wrong things to her, I couldn’t tell when I could talk about what i wanted to talk about, it felt it was all about her and I could never talk about what I wanted. it was always about what she wanted to talk about. But maybe it was her on her part and not me. I should have just let her go and quit talking to her because I couldn’t stop upsetting her. But then a couple months back she apologized to me on the forum and saying it was her and she was mean to me and what her problem was and it was about something else so I guess she took it out on me. But I still feel I have bad social skills. We were just not compatible for friendship because she had needs I couldn’t give her and asking for support from me was too much to ask. She doesn’t want a listener, she wants someone who can say the right things to her for support than just sit there and type nothing or going “oh.” She also didn’t want to hear my own stories to relate to her or for giving her support. I found out that is seen as narcissism so i can see how we can also be mistaken for one when we do that.
“If you get frustrated or angry at them about any of these things it will hurt their feelings, and then they’ll go on about how YOU’RE the one who does’t care about them obviously, and how you’re the one without empathy, while completely ignoring what they say said or did in the first place that hurt your feelings, and while ignoring your feelings.”
It makes me feel bad like I suck with communication and that my social skills suck and I am kidding myself. I feel misunderstood like they don’t care but I won’t say anything to them about it because I know it will just come off as gas lighting and abuse and dismissive of their feelings. When my friend would do this to me, it would always upset me and I would be left speechless. I couldn’t defend myself because of how it would come off as and I didn’t want to use AS as an excuse.
“To say they are self-centered is an understatement.”
I am not sure what she means by this. Is she acknowledging that we are not self centered because of our condition?
“A common trait that people associate with Asperger’s is the lack of empathy. This misconception could be due to ‘normal people’ lacking the ability to empathize with aspies. Chew on that irony for a moment”- Tamera Excel, Aspie
This was another quote she quoted and the she quotes again from the same person:
“Our needs and feelings are incomprehensible to those outside our “culture.” But for some reason, the responsibility to learn empathy lies on us, even thought it arguably is more challenging… If allists are so socially capable, then why don’t they put the extra effort to learn our language, to feel our pain ?” – Tamera Excel
So you see we seem to be going back and forth. We want them to understand but we want them to understand so where do we draw the line for who has to bend backwards?
Some of us don’t want to do the work and normies don’t want to do the work. We both want it our way. Here we want them to do it our way but they want us to do it their way. This comes off as war to me.
“It’s all about them, all the time. It has to be – who else could it be about? No one, because no one else has feelings. No one else has needs. Why? Because no one else exists.”
Yes some aspies do carry this attitude, I have seen it. This is what normies keep seeing so they think all of us are this way. How are we helping the stigma with this attitude about them? Calling victims of abuse narcissists or treating them like the bad guy or saying they have no empathy for their abuser is feeding into the stigma about us being abusers and having no empathy. Yes this woman was hurt by two aspies so she wrote the blog. But what if those two aspies were misdiagnosed? What if they were also narcissistic? People with narcissism also don’t get different perspectives and have no empathy. They are not able to feel about others, it’s also all about them. This is why I never wanted to mention Jerry being an aspie (when I believed he had it) when I would talk about my bad relationship I had with him because I didn’t want to be seen as hateful about AS or be seen as uncaring and non empathetic towards aspies. If you talk about your abusive aspie, you are seen bad by people on the autism spectrum because they assume you are the bad guy the abuser, not your partner. So I had learned to leave out his condition when I talk about my bad relationship. Then it was so wonderful when I found out he was actually a covert narcissist. Then I decided I will not longer identify him as an aspie.
“Psychopaths lack “emotional empathy” which is the ability to share in, and respond appropriately to, other people’s emotions. But they do have “cognitive empathy,” which is the ability to accurately read the emotional states of others (and what makes them such effective manipulators). Aspies are the other way around – they supposedly have affective empathy, but lack cognitive empathy.”
I have always frozen up when I would see people cry because i have no idea how to respond. In high school I would ask what was wrong only to be told to not worry about it. So after a while I learned I was not supposed to care so I stopped asking. Then later I am accused of being disrespectful and not caring so I point this out to them and they tell me “never mind” and to forget about it. My mom said this was because I was right and my therapist told me I was defensive. Okay so who do I believe? Was my mom bias again or was my therapist full of it? I often feel I don’t know what to do so it does make me feel like a psychopath but I will never exploit others and hurt them. I read many times that aspies can feel others emotions and their feelings but they also don’t know what to do about it or they shut down because it’s too much for them to handle. This makes me feel even more of a psychopath but then I wonder if this was a characteristic of being an empath. I am not an empath.
“As Aspies will tell you, they might seem like they don’t care about other people’s feelings, but that’s only because they don’t know how others are feeling. If they knew, they would say they care.”
Yes this is very true about us. It’s even in the criteria about impairment in body language and stuff. Even I have been told I didn’t care about others or think of others and their feelings. It was so darn frustrating to keep hearing this in high school. But I just didn’t know what I was supposed to be doing to care about others because apparently asking people “what’s wrong?” when they cry is all wrong. It was none of my business so when I do what the told me to do, I am accused of not caring. I am accused of selfishness.
“Empathy is the ability to be aware of another person’s thoughts and feelings, and having the wherewithal to speak about this awareness. It also means creating mutual understanding and sense of caring for one another. It’s not empathy unless you respond appropriately to the other person.”
Then she goes on about how damaging us aspies can cause our partner in relationships due to this. What if she were only talking about her aspie partner and a friend she had with it? I don’t think it would change anything but if she said they were both psychopaths, then she wouldn’t be seen as the bad guy or be seen as being hateful. We can hate on psychopaths and narcissists because it’s more acceptable. Psychopaths and narcissists have such a negative stigma, they are all seen as bad so no one bats an eye about it. But autism doesn’t have as much of a negative stigma as it does for narcissism and psychopathy and sociopathy so it is unPC to talk bad about it based on your personal experience. It is uncomfortable to go on all these websites where people talk about their negative experience with an aspie.
Tell a bull they are a bully, they will just get defensive and go into victim mode, tell a parent they are a child abuser they will just cling onto their ignorance more and be defensive and justify what they are doing, tell a person they are stupid, they just cling onto their ignorance more and they stop listening. If you tell anyone anything negative about them, they get defensive, it’s just part of human nature. Anyone who overhears someone bad talking them, they get defensive and not see from their perspective. Logically I would think if someone heard someone talking bad about them, the person would change their ways because they realize how badly they come off as to them and how they make them feel but sadly it doesn’t work that way, it’s a pipe dream. My husband told me it’s emotions that get in the way. No one likes to hear bad things about them, no one, so when we see all these negative posts about aspies, it’s natural to get defensive and then we don’t see their perspective. We’re not going to go “Mmmm I will stop dismissing my partner’s feelings and just start listening. Oh I will start caring about their days and try harder to care. I will try harder to remember to ask them about their days. I will stop getting upset with them when they get upset with me. I will just start holding in my feelings so I can act better to my partner.”
For a while I hated seeing all these posts and they would always make me uncomfortable and since my childhood I have tried hard to care. I would watch what nice people do and do that. I would watch what mean people do and not do what they do. if anything I did I was told that was rude, I would add to my mental list to not ever do that again because it’s rude. I didn’t want to be rude and I didn’t even need to understand why it was rude, it was rude and if I wanted to be liked, I couldn’t be rude or kids will think I am rude. I am the exceptional because all this negative feedback I got about me is what made me change and be a better person. Most kids will just get defensive and not change. I even would go to the school library and read these books like “Let’s talk about showing Odd” ‘Let’s Talk About Being a Poor Sport” ‘Let’s talking About Cheating.” I read all these books because I wanted to see how bad people act and how good people act so I would know what behavior to have to be a good person and to be likable.
Was it easy? I was stressed out in school and I felt I had to be careful what I did with my body, be careful when I walked when there was lot of people and I would feel more relaxed at home because I knew I wasn’t being judged or watched and when we would be out in public, I still felt comfortable because none of those kids were around from my school to judge me. I just didn’t want to be rude or mean or be the bad guy. I wanted to be good.
Then seeing all these negative posts about is would frighten me because I would worry about being that bad but I had decided to put a positive spin on it, read it as “what not do to in relationships.”
But I can understand why other aspies would be upset by these posts because they worry other people will read them and apply that stereotype and then refuse to accept us even more because they are lumping us with the bad. Bad apples exist in every community. I have spoken to lot of aspies online and lot of them were not what they were described as in these negative posts. I have known some aspies who acted badly, of course but put in mind that they might just be assholes and anyone can be an asshole. Frankie was one but he also had ODD and he also acted like a psychopath. He may have had conduct disorder. But he definitely had more than AS. His mom also said his was mild so maybe it was mild but his ODD was not.
“If this blog were about how you should put up with a psychopath because they just can’t help how they are, would you be reading it?”
Of course not. No one wants to be with one and they are seen as bad.
“Is there even a blog or anything else in existence that advise people to stay in a relationship with a psychopath?”
No because they’re bad. No one deserves to be abused.
“So why is there so much information out there about how to live with Aspies, how to understand them, and how really wonderful they are even if it isn’t apparent?”
Because it’s not seen as bad and it’s seen as innocent. Aspies are not seen as abusers like psychopaths are.
“Yesterday, my aspie spouse started yelling at me in the car. What started the argument was, of course, my fault. because I’m a total idiot. Mainly because I have feelings. And (cardinal sin that is), I tried to share said stupid feelings. So stupid of me! Will I never learn? Obviously not…”
This was another quote she made posted by someone in her blog about being married to an aspie. This was depressing to read and I couldn’t imagine treating my own partner this way. But then she says how that person tells others to stay in their marriage. What? Why? Because someone has AS and it’s not their fault they are that way? No one deserves to be abused. If your partner is abusive, get out. No excuses.
More of the quote:
“Days, weeks, months go by where you go into hiding. Staying away, staying silent, refusing to engage in any conversations that may possibly divulge a remnant of feeling, brought some semblance of peace. But that won’t last. It cannot possibly last. Because you have a neurologically typical brain, heart, soul.”
Why is the blogger staying in this? This sounds very much like abuse. Having to keep everything bottled up, can’t express yourself, have to be careful how you word things and what you say and how you say it, you are always wrong. You can never do right. It sounds like a blog I wouldn’t want to read because the partner has AS and is abusive. But if he were a psychopath or a narcissistic I would read it. But no one wants to hear about an aspie being an abuser and it’s always hard to read when someone comes on Wrongplanet and talks about their aspie partner being abusive and we will tell them AS has nothing to do with it and we also tell them to get out of the relationship.
This is how far I will get. She has written a little more in her blog and it’s too much to write and quote because I have to type it all out because you can’t copy or paste. She has that feature where it won’t let you. I don’t know if it’s for her whole blog or just this post because she knew it would be controversial and unPC so she turned off the copy and paste feature to avoid being quoted. But it didn’t stop me from posting the url and typing the quotes.
I say getting mad at her for what she had written will just prove her point about us if we get mad at her and call her names and accuse her and that will just reinforce the stigma about us and the stereotype.
So yeah I do understand where she is coming from. She was hurt by two aspies and I don’t know if it was due to their lack of theory of mine or if they were just jerks. I have acted like a jerk before and maybe I was just an asshole than all innocent like the time I kept calling my brother chubby because I wasn’t calling him fat, he was chubby. I think he is fat so therefore I will lie to him by saying he is chubby. That was my literal thinking there but it still doesn’t change I was being an ass. I had just learned about sarcasm so there I was insulting people because I was lying. I thought sarcasm was another word for lying so therefore I was lying. So my mom told me I would never get sarcasm and I get what it is now so I could stop being sarcastic. That got me to stop because she told me I didn’t need to keep on doing it and she told me I would never get it. Of course she told me as an adult that she told me that because it was easier for her to get me to quit being so hurtful and mean. She had to find a way to get me to stop and quit being so obsessed with sarcasm. But did I realize then how hurtful it was? No. So there was me being abusive. No excuse. I also did shitty things as a kid but don’t all kids do shitty things? I had no understanding then what I was doing was making those other kids feel so my mom always had to give me a taste of my own medicine. I wouldn’t quit spraying kids with a hose so she sprayed me with one, I kept spitting, so she spat on me, I wouldn’t quit pinching my brothers so she got on me and pinched me. This was her way of teaching me how it felt for others. For years I thought these were all punishments so I saw it as “You do this to other kids I will do it back to you” and I was 17 when my mom told me those were not punishments, those were lessons and she was teaching me. She wasn’t doing them to punish me. She would do them and then I would get a punishment. But in my mind I only remember “This is how it feels” and is given a taste of my own medicine and it’s all over. Nothing else happened after that. I don’t remember being told to go to my room or to the stairs or having anything get taken from me for a punishment. Lot of kids may not have to be given a taste of their own medicine because they are able to understand how others feel but with me I didn’t so my mom had to show me. But then again even normal kids have been given a taste of their own medicine it’s not uncommon for parents to do things back to their children to show them how it feels. Kids also lack TOMs and their empathy isn’t also fully developed so there is a joke that they all act like sociopaths and narcissists but the difference is they grow out of it. They are seen as innocent and not abusive when their behavior is normal. No one is going to say they are being abused by their two year old when he kicks and throws things at them or pinches them or scratches them. That is normal behavior for them. But what if they were full grown adults and they had a mind of a two year old and they were aggressive? Then what? They are the size of an adult, not a two year old so of course they will be hurting other people because of their size. A two year old can easily be held down and restrained when they attack and you tell them no and put them in time out but you can’t do that with a mentally disabled adult with a two year old mind because a two year old can learn so how do you teach a mentally disabled adult with a mind of a two year old? Even infants learn fast to not bit your boob because you take it away from them and not let them nurse. That is why my children never bit my boob again. But that doesn’t mean they really understand. They just know if they bite it, it gets taken and they can’t nurse. When I was a kid, I didn’t really understand rules, I only knew that if I didn’t follow them, there is trouble for me. So that is why I wonder if I would have cared after all if I had lost my mother’s trust because if it was affecting me, then I would have to care.
So after what I have written here, am I an abuser and a psychopath?