I will being using abbreviations for names in this blog to avoid drama and for privacy.
I remember years back in 2010 about the great moderator purge that had happened on Wrongplanet (WP). For a few years there had been abuse going on on the forums, WP members being harassed by a WP mod, members getting banned unfairly, and I would hear about all of this on other forums and some other members would just leave the forum due to harassment from a mod. There was one particular user I enjoyed there and her name was MD. She heard the stories and left the forum and went to Aspiesforfreedom and I felt sad she left WP because I enjoyed her posts and then she was back to WP posting. Somehow she had formed a bond with one of the moderators named SB and they got along well, SB answered all her questions. But SB would be nasty to certain people and even though she had never been nasty to me, she has ignored my questions when she would send me a PM and I lost more trust in her and that told me the rumors I were hearing were true.Then one day she got nasty with me because I didn’t know a WP member was banned I talked about and I didn’t know which member she was talking about so I told her that and somehow that made her mad so she sent me her “final warning” and it was real nasty and she accused me of kidding with a kidder and the rest of it made no sense. Why was she so angry? Why did she think I was lying? What rule have I broken now? There was nothing listed in the rules about correcting moderators or telling them you didn’t know a user was banned so I had faced abuse for the very first time from a moderator and I was next in line. This had deeply upset me. I couldn’t keep my mouth shut about it so I talked to people about it on forums, to my online friends, I even got banned from WP for posting about the nasty warning I had received from SB in one of the I2 threads. A I2 user named CA told me it looked like SB is gunning me down now. She had also told me she had been showing my PMs to MK, and AP, and L. I didn’t know why that was relevant for me to know and why would I care? I had nothing to hide and I wasn’t doing anything wrong so why did she tell me this? What was she thinking?
I also felt SB had been giving me special treatment because she was never nasty to me, she could have just banned me if she wanted to because I was a member on Zomgaspies and I2, she could have banned me when I would get into dramas with other WP users and we had one member there who was a red piller and I did break rules by attacking him because he was a red piller. He would attack women in general, blame it all on them, say mean things about them and always said they were dishonest and had double standards. But I stopped after SB confronted me about it and I didn’t say anything else to him and I would moderate myself and delete my humor thinking it might be taken as an attack. Also when I would accidentally break a WP rule because I didn’t realize it fell under the rules like for example the time I asked about people taking problems from a label and making it it’s own condition calling it executive dysfunctioning. It’s like taking branches from a tree and putting it in a pile and giving it its own name. That was an analogy someone used to tell me they understood what I was asking. But anyway I had linked to a thread from Aspiesforfreedom about the discussion and somehow that was considered an attack on another forum so I had learned that linking to other forums about something is an attack. I knew not to do that again. Another rule I can remember I accidentally broke is asking who is the severest aspie on the forum because that was considered an attack despite how aspies there like to talk about how they would never cure their autism and how they like having it and talking about neuordiversity and how it’s a difference and not a disability. Ironic isn’t it? I was never banned for those mistakes like other members would have been. But later on this was used against me that SB was giving me special treatment, why was it my fault? Should I have done something about it? Should I have told her to stop being nice to me and treat me how she would treat others? I was just happy she wasn’t being nasty to me and that I wasn’t her victim. I felt special because I was not her target. Why did she like me? I didn’t want her abuse nor did I want to be her victim. Who would? What would you do if someone was giving you special treatment and they had a rep for abuse? I was afraid of her no matter how sweet she was to me. I didn’t want to piss her off. But then somehow that one line took her mask off and she turned against me. Then she was sweet in her next PM asking me when does my break from WP start because I had told her about wanting to do that but I told her I had changed my mind and I will just lurk.
But anyway after I had posted about her unfair warning on I2, I was banned from WP within three hours after the nasty PM sent and I had done nothing else that would break a rule on the forum. I hadn’t posted anything else so I know I hadn’t done anything and I knew it was my rant about her that did it because I could no longer log into my account, the forum was unviewable because when she changed my password and deleted my email from the account while I was still logged in, it glitched so the whole board was blank like it was a bug. I thought off and on if it was a glitch and I wasn’t banned because I could remember a girl name HB was banned because her password never worked and SB helped jer reset it and it was some bug she had. I also remember another user named PK, her password also quit working so she created a new account and SB banned her third account but helped her reset her password for her MK account. I wondered if that was what happened to me so I tried to get the same issue fixed. Maybe I wasn’t banned. I contacted AP about it and he told me I wasn’t banned and this was a week of me fretting over all this because of my OCD and wondering if I was banned or was it a glitch and then I was thinking it had to be a glitch and it was a coincidence. AP told me I was not banned or I would have gotten the words stating I was but I told him my password was not working and it was lost so I was not able to recover it so he offered to reset it and I let him and he told me the password and I was back on the forum posting. I got over the nasty PM and moved on with my life. After all I was not her first victim and won’t be her last victim and she had been nasty to other members before but that is just SB. Things were good for a day and then it said I was logged out but yet I was still able to send a PM and it still acted like I was logged in because I could still make posts and my user name was showing and yet it said I was logged out and my password quit working again. Was this another glitch again but yet I also felt I was being harassed and knew it had to be SB because she was the person I had a problem with. I told AP about it and I decided to I better test this out to see if this is a glitch or am I being harassed so I used my husband’s abandoned account. He had only made one post and I got his permission and he didn’t care about his account because he had no interest in the forum. I could not let this go unless I got answers and I needed to figure this all out. I made posts and after about six posts, the glitch happened again so I knew it had to be a moderator. I even signed my posts with my username so everyone would know it’s me and I had to see if the password would quit working again and it did so I knew this could not be a glitch. I had even posted under my SG account about the glitch and that got unanswered so I used my husband’s account when I could no longer see the forum. Then the next day my SG and my LC accounts were gone. I asked AP about it and he didn’t know what I was talking about so I showed him and I remember I was talking to him on the phone and he asked if he could call me back. I said yes and I went to sleep trying to put the issue aside. I just wanted answers and I would just move on if I have to or try to anyway after I get my answers. Then three hours later he called me back and told me he thinks someone did it and I told him i think I know who and he asked me “who?” and I said “SB” and AP had that same idea too. Then we hung up and I got on the forum and I could tell there was something going on and I remember a guy on i2 named P posted a thread about missing accounts on WP and that sparked attention from members on the forum and I decided to create my third account to tell my story about this abuse and I didn’t want to jump to any conclusions yet unless I was absolutely sure there was abuse going on. I decided to look that that thread again and I was still unsure if it’s a glitch but yet I am thinking I am being bullied by SB and one member is thinking it’s all a mistake because he didn’t believe mod abuse can happen on boards and that they can bully members. Then there is MD who is also doubting the issue and thinks it could be a virus on my end giving me problems. Then I remember a mod from Aspiesforfreedom (AFF) telling her the problem would have happened on other forums too I go to if it was a virus. He also told her hackers are not interested in forums. I should also add a member from WP was banned for posting this because her password had quit working and she was not able to recover it:
The thing about this “project” was for members to come to the forum who have been mistreated by the mods, mostly SB to keep on posting their stories about the abuse and flood the forum and there will be too many of them to even delete those posts in time. But coincidentally it had happened because no plan had ever seen set for it and it was spontaneous. Once I found out AP had removed all his mods until he sorted the problem out, I went to the other autism boards and told everyone about it so they could go back and tell their story so that is what happened but instead it turned into a drama and personal attacks on the mods including on MD. That totally made it look like that was why they were banned in the first place.
There was one other thread with the drama in it too but that got removed.
But after the incident SB was banned, the mods got their mod privileges back, AP banned the returned users which I thought was QM at first. I told AP about A’s mother being banned and her ex boyfriend because they thought it was her but he told me they would have to contact him. I am sure these two members being banned was an innocent mistake because they had all shared the same computer so one of the mods banned the two accounts and left A’s account or was she banned too at that same time, I am not sure but she was also banned too.
I feel I was hard on MD because I said on another forum she was stupid because she would not believe what SB did and was still in denial about it and I even showed her screen shots of the evidence but she said it didn’t make sense and told her nothing. I had also did an impersonation of her on I2 because I was hurt by her and I did it to blow off steam but realizing now that SB was a narcissist, not just someone who had autism or multiple personality disorder, MD was under her spell. She was manipulated by her and of course none of our stories would add up because SB was so good with herself and her stories to make us all look crazy. MD even thought I was paranoid and thought anything I said made zero sense. Narcissists will do crazy things and do things that make no sense and then the victim will look crazy because it will not add up. And sadly people fall under their spell so they side against the victim. So MD if you are reading this, I forgive you and I am sorry for how I acted and behaved about you.
Also I had found out I was not the cause of this whole thing, many members sent PMs to AP about the situation and my former friend SBI sent AP something too and even though this mess was over, why was I still upset about all this? All because I had been wronged by MD? I even threw a celebration for SB getting banned and not having her mod privileges back because my whole life I had always been helpless and not able to defend myself and this time I felt like I had stood up for myself so I had to show her. I had to show everyone I was not defenseless and I can defend myself and be strong and I am the wrong person to mess with. But that got seen as bullying. Even as a kid I would get in trouble for standing up for myself when I would fight back. A few people had told me I was paranoid and MK told me my paranoia was remarkable. He had also taken SB’s side. But I found out over a year later when a new WP mod named MLA who was now retired and banned from the forum for telling a user he was paranoid posted a moderator log in the private section on I2 and it took place right after the moderator purge. I skimmed it and only read parts that were being said about me and I learned that MK and L were both paranoid moderators and they thought I had an agenda in my posts even though I didn’t and it was all because of I2. SB had told SBI and MD in PM I had broken too many rules and I knew instantly that was BS because I only broke some, not a lot. Even MK told me I had broken too many WP rules and he also told me right after the incident that I was provoking members by talking about William Fruend and I asked him how was I provoking them and he said I was bringing up a terrible past so I had learned that talking about William Fruend was a violation of the rule because it falls under provoking members. But yet I saw SB break that exact same rule too after the moderator purge by also mentioning his name. MK claimed I kept on breaking rules after being warned and told me how he had kept working with me. We barely even communicated in PM and it was only SB who would send me a PM sometimes. I do remember one time when I asked MK about something regarding something he sent me in PM and he didn’t answer. He of course denied he ignored my questions. Mk even said when I said I would stop attacking KM (redpill user) I insult members hours later and he called it all BS I was doing. I had no idea how I was insulting members. If I was insulting members, why was I never told about this, what were the insults? Were my social skills this bad I have no idea what I am doing?
I did find out in the mod log by L that I “broke” another WP rule and that rule and I forget what that post was I made but he said it broke the rules even though I didn’t see it falling under any rule. I can’t remember if it was me posting in a troll thread or posting in my former friend’s thread when she decided to try the forum again or if it was a thread I posted asking what members had they stalked on WP meaning whose profile have they viewed and read all their posts from but I could see L was paranoid because he thought I was being a trouble maker and he said there was no point in warning me because I won’t take notice. I then found out from reading that part is the whole time the mods didn’t warn me if they thought I was breaking a rule and of course I wouldn’t take notice if they don’t answer my questions and if they don’t tell me what rule I broke and if they are not concrete and once they tell me what rule I did that broke the rules and tell me what that violation falls under, I make a mental note to not do that again but it won’t tell me what other behaviors would fall under that rule. You can have a rule about “do not be an asshole” This rule is vague, asshole is a relative term. So someone could post their political view about adoption. The persons says putting a baby up for an adoption is very cowardly and selfish and bam that person gets a warning being told when they said that (showing their quote from their post) it breaks the “Don’t be an asshole” rule. Now that person has learned that calling people selfish and cowards for putting their babies up for an adoption falls under that rule but it sure won’t tell them what other things would fall under that rule because asshole is a relative term. When you read rules on the board, you interpret them your own way and what they mean to you but you learn by trial and error from your mistakes and you don’t do that again. This is how I learn but they thought I was doing it on purpose just because I was not a mind reader. I mean seriously, “don’t be an asshole” I could think someone is being an asshole because I don’t like their opinion so I report them to the mods for being an asshole. This is an actual rule on a forum I go to, WP has no such rule.
But anyway I had found out MK was behind the whole password not working thing and he also knew about my accounts being deleted and he even admitted in it PM on another forum after denying it on WP. I even found out DW who I thought was an okay mod knew about it too but she seemed to have denied it also and told me SB would do things even if they didn’t want to but felt it was right. I am thinking she was manipulated by SB and I am realizing MK was also a narcissist because his behavior makes more sense now and L might have been an okay mod even though I have heard some bad things about him. I was even starting to give MK a benefit of the doubt hoping I had been wrong about him and he wasn’t bad as SB but sadly I was right about him the first time after talking to him after he was no longer mod. I no longer believe the things he told me like insulting members,m breaking lot of the WP rules, he even used my past against me, my mistakes, and the time I tried to get myself banned from WP to join the banning party on I2 and then I was unbanned and I didn’t even try to get banned again and it was very obvious he would look for posts on I2 by me and say I was breaking the WP rules even though there is nothing listed in the rules about the rules applying on other forums. He even though TT impersonator was me even though that was my former friend doing the impersonation. I even suspect just from reading the moderator log that they thought I had more accounts than I did and they might have thought they were talking to me when they weren’t or that could have been one of MK’s manipulation tactics to make me doubt myself. I even emailed the log to SBI, TID, and SC and they read it and told me it did sound like they thought I had more accounts.
Maybe my social skills are better than I realize and it was just me being gas lighted when I was told I insulted members and that I kept breaking WP rules and MK was just paranoid. If not a narcissist, he was crazy and paranoid if he believes it. But our stories not adding up all makes sense now because narcissist are very clever people and can make their victims look crazy and MD was manipulated, not because she was bad as SB. She was also a victim of narcissism. Even BB said something about it to MD and he actually knew SB did does this and she was having her fooled. Narcissists are very sneaky bullies and then they play the victim and act like their victim is the bad guy to look innocent. But anyway she acted shocked when she heard I posted on other forums about her being banned and I said I did do that and she said it hurts her feelings which was ironic because she couldn’t dish it out what she dished in. SBI stood up for me by telling her she deleted my accounts. Then she was trying to manipulate him in PM and he told me about it and didn’t believe her. He told me that she told her I broke too many rules and he searched through my posts that were left in members posts because they were quoted and he searched my posts on other forums and didn’t find anything flaws in them. He investigated and did his homework before forming an opinion and taking sides.
But this took me over a year to get over it thanks to the mod log because I got my answers. Now I realize MK and SB were both narcissists and they do a good job making the victims look bad and I have been told by a few people I am paranoid. Even MK said I was paranoid but that was part of his game to make me doubt myself and because they do accusations and make no sense, you are not able to defend yourself well because you don’t understand where they are coming from. They will claim you did this or that and say they have a record of it or say they looked at the time stamps. So how many people told me I was paranoid, three. Now I am going to hit Google now and do a search about narcissists victims being called paranoid and see if they have also been called paranoid.
If it weren’t for me having OCD, would this whole thing have happened? Hard to say.
Thanks to it, I couldn’t stop talking about it and thinking about it and trying to find answers so I was over focused on it for days after the nasty PM incident and the fact I don’t like to be wronged or falsely accused and I couldn’t move on so this happened. Were other people sending PMs to AP about SB because I couldn’t keep my mouth shut, hard to say. Because it’s in the past and I am no longer worried or affected by it, I do not care anymore and don’t wish to seek these other answers. I felt I was the wrong person to be messed with because of my OCD and I can’t keep my mouth shut when something has really upset me and the fact how much it upsets me when I am wronged and falsely accused. But I am sure that is a lesson people have learned about me. I even unintentionally caused my school counselor to get fired because I couldn’t keep my mouth shut about his comments so my therapist wrote a letter to the state of Washington with my mom’s permission talking about me in it and he lost his license and can never work with his and he was fired and this all happened after we had moved and child porn was found on his computer. But sadly I cannot find any record about him online when I search his name. It’s as if this never happened like he doesn’t even exist. I could find no such story online either because the story is too old and it happened in 1998.
I did hear from PK on AFF that lot of the former members did return to WP. I am not sure how he got that information. And my deleted posts did return to the forum after AP did the upgrade. A broken promise he finally did after four years of waiting before the upgrade took place. I thought they would never return. But I feel forgiveness for both SB and MK.
But after the whole moderator purge incident, AP decided to unban SB and she would try and goad me to attack her to get me banned and I was too smart for it. Other members could see her agenda and HB thought it was so pathetic of her.
MD also left the forum after the moderator purge and occasionally her name would pop up on the forum in one of the older threads when it would get bumped and I would click her name and saw she had been to the forum and she is only lurking. I don’t know if she still goes there or not. SB comes to the forum occasionally and MK was banned by AP and I think L still comes to the forum too who also eventually lost his status as a mod.
But why was it so hard to move on from this? Because I was a victim of abuse and abuse is hard to move on from. For other people it was nothing because they had never been a victim of it or never been a victim of a narcissist. You can’t understand if you have never been through it and some people might refuse to believe it because they don’t want to think a moderator can abuse their powers and harass members and then make the victim look crazy but ignorance is a bliss. Also it might make them feel safe when they think that because just as along as they think only you have to do something wrong to get banned or treated that way, they think it can’t happen to them if they are decent members. Also if someone claims to be banned for no reason, observe their behavior and how they react to people and how they handle their feelings and if it’s negative, then they probably were not banned for no reason at all. I have seen very few banned WP members get banned on other forums and I can assume that is the reason why they were banned on WP so their ban was legitimate. I have only been banned by mistake on zomgaspies when they had a spammer and somehow my IP got on their ban list but that got fixed, I created a sockpuppet on the forum because other members were so I decided to join in and ST decided no more lame sockpuppets and banned my sockpuppet and others, I was banned from a politic forum because I let an online friend pressure me to join it and pressure me to troll it and I didn’t want to because it was boring so he asked for my password information and I gave it to him and he started to spam the forum with my posts from WP and that got my account banned but I didn’t care. Then I have been banned from Asperger and I2 because I had asked to be banned for 30 days because of a drama, one of the dramas was about the SB incident and I was being accused of gossip and being a bully because I couldn’t keep my mouth shut about it and we had a troll there named Changeling. To this day I don’t know who that troll was. But someone from that forum named E thought I was being paranoid when I told her he obviously knows me on other forums because of what he knows about the SB incident and about me and she thought he was just some random person who had never seen me before and it was all a coincidence what he was doing and I was just being paranoid. She was one of the three people who accused me of it. And one other forum I was banned from was from when I was 18 because I felt wronged by the forum owner because I was attacked by two teens on the forum so I defended myself instead of trying to ignore them. So I spammed his forum to try and bring members back to the other forum where the drama took place to it would be active again and he didn’t want me and two other teens posting there and he didn’t care who started the drama and who the victim was. Those were the only times I have been banned from forums. The rest I was never banned from. To this day I have no idea why my old friend attacked me on that forum and his online girlfriend and why my old friend turned against me. That was something I always wondered and it also took me months to get over and now it’s way in the past, I don’t care anymore and I don’t see those people around anymore who would now be 27 and 26. Do I think they were narcissists? Neah I think they were just immature teenagers and maybe they have grown up now because they are now grown. Now today if someone insults me, I just ignore it than react to it. That could be the reason why R didn’t want me on his forum because I was too sensitive and too vulnerable to abuse and I don’t react well to verbal abuse so it was easier to not have me on his forum. But once I started to toughen up, people started to leave me alone and if I ignore the insults, other people will see I do not care and will also leave me alone. If I am truly being harassed, well I will tell a moderator and they will tell that member to back off and leave me alone and to ignore me or I could tell them myself to leave me alone before involving a mod. But that forum was unmoderated so I had no way of asking for help and the owner wasn’t around and it was one of those messages boards where older posts bump off the forum from newer posts. So all I could have done then was just simply ignore it and would those teens have backed off or just keep doing it and even if they kept on doing it, those teens would have been the ones who couldn’t post on the forum and I would have been allowed and I wouldn’t have had a problem at all. Sometimes defending yourself is not an answer. But I also feel forgiveness for those teens. But the other forums I have never been banned on nor have I ever gotten messages from mods over and over except for on WP but it was gradual and it started in late 2009 and I counted seven total from SB from September 2009 to Jan 2010 which is when the nasty warning took place. SBI thinks it might have been all planned months before it took place. I am sure this is how it started for some members and then the PMs got closer and closer together and then they left because they also felt harassed. Even I was thinking about leaving WP in fall of 2009 but that place was too addicting. But MLA found a pattern while he was mod and he noticed that members who have had their accounts messed with were all members on I2. Very interesting so he would forward it to A to have him reset their passwords so they can log in again and start posting. I had always knew there was some vendetta against I2 by SB and I figured I had that password problem with her and the nasty PM from her was because I am on I2 and that moderator logged confirmed it because even MK had something against that forum too as indicated in his posts. So at least I knew I was correct and I even copied the whole log and saved it to Microsoft word and it’s now saved onto a disc. I saved it to show online friends and ask for their opinion and the only criticism I had gotten was do not put usernames in polls without their permission. I asked for their opinion because I wanted to hear feedback to see if I was reading it right and had interpreted it right like did they think I had more accounts than I really had. Did they think I had more than five accounts they thought I had. Even DW believed it and I told her on AFF in PM I only had two accounts and told her I had accidentally posted from my ex’s account because he was still logged in when I used his computer while we were living together . I checked his account after my accounts were deleted and his was still there but the account someone used to impersonate me was also one and it was very obvious it wasn’t me because of the terms they were using. They could have bothered with IP addresses but because I had posted from my home, my parents, my ex’s computer, my aunt and uncle’s home, it gave me different IPs which I explained to MK and DW. I have been accused of using a proxy by A and MK and sneaking back on the forum by MK. So does this even look good? Not at all because they can just use that to justify thinking other accounts were mine. Plus being on I2 and putting my rants there than on WP and doing stuff on i2 I wouldn’t be able to do on WP due to the rules, that also didn’t look good either so I can understand why some members would leave that forum and only stick to WP which is what HB did. I was naive to think it wouldn’t affect me on WP and they could use my posts there against me especially my humor and I basically set myself up and these narcissists used it against me to make me look like the bad guy, the evil villain and MK tried to convince me I had destroyed WP and he acted like I was the worst person ever online and the worst bully and said I was a professor troll and tried to say I contradict myself and listed examples of how I provoke people. He was very good. He had me worried for months that I am misunderstood and people will misread me and my intentions and told me the truth hurts. Well I shouldn’t have asked. I just wanted to know what he had against me. But have I had any problems on WP in the last five years, not at all. Even members have left me alone and have not insulted me or attack me. Occasionally I will get attacked but I ignore it. I wouldn’t want to make myself vulnerable to abuse would I? I also try to avoid drama. SB tried to exploit that in me by trying to bait me in her posts because I have been in drama before with other WP members and I saw her agenda so I had to be strong and not worry what others may think, she also knew I do not take false accusations well so she wrote something in her post about being a man or something that had been mentioned in rumors by banned members on zomgaspies when I wrote that people have said about me that I am straightforward., then she wrote something others have said about her that was untrue and I never said that about her. I knew she only wrote that to bait me so she could find a reason that my post broke a rule and go to A about it to get me banned. When that didn’t work the banning glitch started to happen and DW kept fixing it but she wouldn’t believe it was intentional someone was doing. I told A about it and he said there are no ban glitches so I asked him about why do I keep getting banned and he said it was maybe that MK guy and I said he wasn’t even a mod anymore and A said he was a mod. This kept on happening and my ban kept being uplifted and I was pregnant with my son at the time and it was stressing me out so I decided to take a break from that forum but the banning glitch had stopped and a week later after the trip from Montana, SBI came to me with the news telling me what A had told him, MK and L and SB were all behind it and I was shocked. I asked how and he told me A had found out one of his users still had their mod tools and they put that member up to it and MK had been banned. I couldn’t understand why L would be behind it. I did confront MK about it and that is when he told me that stuff and he of course denied he was behind the banning and said I was foolish for believing it but it didn’t make me a bad person. But SB had fucked off finally. Then I saw her in my autism group in 2011 and she flat out ignored me like I wasn’t there. That eased my worries because I didn’t have to worry about her giving me any trouble. I was relieved and if she thought her silent treatment was going to upset me, wrong. She only came to the group twice and I never saw her again. The only thing that was creepy about seeing her there was how nice she was and you wouldn’t guess what she could be capable of. She also looked different than she did in her photo online but I can confirm to everyone that she is definitely not a guy. I have no idea how that rumor even started.
Mk did start his very own forum and I never participated on it but I did join it to spy on it and to check it out using a different email address, signing up from my husband’s parents’ friend’s house during a barbecue. SBI joined it too and blew his cover there but things still went fine for him there. SBI told me MK wouldn’t stop emailing him and then those emails stopped when he joined his forum and blew his cover.
But never confront a narcissist. You won’t get the truth and they will gaslight you and make you out to be the bad guy and they are so good at it. Discard everything they have told you. Either he is super paranoid or he is a very good pathological liar and they lie to your face. I have been told he is very manipulative and SBI thought he was lying to me. He probably was if he was a narcissist. But he has not messed with me. SB hasn’t messed with me in six years. They move on.